Episode 49: Easing The Path To Entrepreneurship
Kinner Sachdev of Knorish

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Entrepreneurship

A work of love and passion is what Maharajas of Scale is. We bring to our viewers, stories of entrepreneurs who are scaling to new heights. Entrepreneurship is close to our hearts. Dedication, hard work, sacrifices, and many sleepless nights are what many founders go through. Thus being able to build and scale s startup is not a walk in the park.

What being an Entrepreneur means
What being an Entrepreneur means

Consequently, just 11% of India’s adult population is engaged in early-stage start-ups. Moreover, just 5% actually go ahead and start their own business. Entrepreneurship allows creating a career that aligns with one's values. Constant growth and development are just a few perks that come with entrepreneurship. Thus It is important that more people become job creators rather than job seekers.

The skill and talent that is entrepreneurship, needs to be nurtured and one needs certain tools and guidance that may help in easing the path to entrepreneurship. Thus allowing more and more people to build and scale their businesses.

Our guest for today is building and scaling his start-up along the same lines that are Easing The Path To Entrepreneurship.

Story Of Kinner Sachdev of Knorish: Easing The Path To Entrepreneurship

Kinner Sachdev built an early warning system against earthquake. He did this just cause he was bored while preparing for his MBBS exams. So, it was clear from the beginning that Kinner, who was inspired by his father hugely wanted to build something. But, it also did not stop him from doing wild experiments. One such venture involved taking a frog’s blood and injecting it into a dog. Don’t worry the dog is still alive. Or so he says.

Kinner Sachdev Of Knorish
Kinner Sachdev Of Knorish

An Unlikely Entrepreneur!

Kinner is an unlikely entrepreneur from the likes of it. With a master’s in molecular biology, he jumped into management consulting. Along the way, he discovered that one of the challenges that enterprises and companies grappled with was making knowledge and learning available to their employees and team members. In the process of helping companies overcome this, Kinner saw an opportunity in making it easy for content creators to launch their academies online.

Creators Assemble!
Creators Assemble! 

Kinner’s Knorish is right in the middle of perhaps the most massive remote working and learning wave we have seen to date. With the help of funnels and automation, Kinner has scaled Knorish to about 17,000 academies.

Knorish enables people, who are not coders and want to sell online courses using their own website. The limitless possibilities of scaling into a global brand with better revenue and better growth is what Knorish is delivering to its 300,000 plus users at this point!

Knorish Logo
Knorish Logo

And this is just the beginning. How did Kinner and Knorish get here? It is all in this episode.

Listen to Kinner Sachdev of Knorish talk about his entrepreneurial journey of easing the path to entrepreneurship for others, growth hacks, sales funnel, and much more. Also, Kinner explains why and how “UI eats features for lunch“.

All this and much more on this episode of the Maharajas of Scale Podcast.

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Here are some excerpts from this Episode:

This is one of the favorite domains right now you know I am fascinated by sales funnels. And I think in nature also, everything’s a funnel.

Kinner Sachdev 37:59

So how did we get to the number? We kept working on the funnels. You know, so we experimented with all traffic channels, you know, and funnels e traffic, every funnel needs a traffic source. So we experimented from Facebook, to YouTube to your Google ads, organic efforts on webinars.

Kinner Sachdev 53:22

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Listen To Another One Of Our Episode: From Investment Banking To Nurturing Entrepreneurship In Young Minds: Story Of Monica Mehta Of The Wadhwani Foundation: Episode 46, Season 1

Show Notes

Russell Brunson of ClickFunnels

Check Out knorish.com

Follow Maharajas of Scale on Twitter (@maharajaofscale)

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Word Cloud for the Episode 49
Word Cloud for the Episode
​Episode Transcript

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, consulting, domain, funnels, build, point, product, krishna, platform, knowledge, running, learn, entrepreneurs, helping, close, launch, business, part, scale, world

SPEAKERS

Kinner Sachdev, Krishna Jonnakadla, Tania Jadhav

Krishna Jonnakadla  00:01

This is Maharajas of Scale, a podcast where we go behind the scenes and talk to founders who are demolishing the myths around building and scaling a big business in India. These are the stories that have shattered the assumptions around Indian consumers and of changing the game completely. I am Krishna Jonnakadla, serial entrepreneur, co founder of FLIT the fashion located in town and startup mentor, bringing you the stories. Everyone this is Krishna, your host at Maharajas of Scale. Today, I have an amazing guest with me, in fact, a body and a fellow of startup leadership program, we are both alumnus of startup Leadership Program. But I think I haven't yet done anything on the scale that Kinner, has done or is doing keener runs a platform called Knorish. And when I looked at his platform, something and something else that was happening today, with my own podcast, the kind of tools that were available, I realized that I think the world is coming to a stage where creating is getting more and more easier. thanks to people like Kinner, the only thing that we need to be doing is actually tap into the news that exists within us. So if you're someone who has something to teach the world killer has a ready solution for you. And he's helping 1000s of people get that their ideas and dreams of the ground Kinner It's so awesome to have you Welcome to the show.

Kinner Sachdev  01:35

Thank you so much Krishna, you, you've been too kind in your appreciation. We're just trying to enable passion entrepreneurs of people, like you said, knowledge entrepreneurs, so get better at launching their ideas and not just keep them within themselves. So happy to be here.

Krishna Jonnakadla  01:53

Awesome. So tell us a little a little bit about yourself and what you're working on right now.

Kinner Sachdev  01:59

Sure. So I think let me pick it up from the backstory. Now me and my co founder started our first company in consulting space, and most of our clients were education brands. So we were helping foreign brands like Cardiff met Lisa from Paris, and some of those large entities from Middle East to expand globally, especially coming to India. And we figured at that time, this is back in 2009 and 10 types, you know, when we were running that organization, then we realize all of this was going to go online. And we could see the real impact and all those ventures could be when people like you and me with expertise in some domain could start teaching to people, you also start teaching the world. And that could only happen if we did not have to hire developers, designers to help us build our ROM, you know, businesses online. So that's where the idea germinated. And that's how nourish was formed. You know, we we basically wanted to make it super simple for anyone to just launch the Academy, you don't start teaching or sharing the knowledge. So that's, that's kind of the backstory.

Krishna Jonnakadla  03:06

Interesting. But people who are in consulting in those high pressure careers, don't usually end up starting companies. If you and I are exceptions, because I was in consulting one point in time, but....

Kinner Sachdev  03:22

Oh I didn't know that

Krishna Jonnakadla  03:23

what. Yeah, so KPMG and a lot of consulting in the US, especially business consulting. But let's dig in a little deeper. What was the first startup that wasn't No, no issues?

Kinner Sachdev  03:39

 No, that was called Scientity. And Scientity, it was started from the campus of Newcastle University as a spin off. So I had my head of school, at the School of biology who just told me that, you know, we have a project where we want to expand our outreach internationally. So why don't you go for it, and, you know, where is the offices key to the next door office, and you guys start because I used to talk to him all the time about that we want to get started. So that's, that's how the first company was formed. And this was a consulting setup, we grew it to kind of a decent revenue 20 plus people flying from Europe, UK, Middle East. So that's, that's what we did for a very long time. And then eventually, we expanded beyond education, and started helping technology companies like carriers, Pratt and Whitney, Boeing, you know, large organizations, launch products, and we will do design consulting and launch consulting for those guys. So that's, that was the first venture. Interesting before we before I ask you where exactly that venture went, and why you ended up starting this. Let's what was the spark for entrepreneurship? what's what's the personal story? Well, well Okay, so I have seen my dad, you know, go through the grind. I mean, he left his job of being the head of a multinational company in the medical products domain when I was just probably two years old or something. And then, you know, I'd seen him go through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. But I think the possibility in your mind develops when you see somebody else doing it, you know, you can do it too, you know, so I'd seen success or no success. I mean, he made a decent company with about 100 workers in a manufacturing setup, it's a manufacturing unit, that he still runs, by the way, he's 70. And he's still not held his shoes, he still at it. So that that kind of gave me the thought that, you know, I, I wanted to do something of my own. And I mean, and I think entrepreneurship is, is a skill. I mean, it's, it's, I feel a lot of people feel it's a fancy position to be in or, or a career choice that you should make, because you want to go after the big money. I think there's a lot of crime that you have to go through, but it's just like, some people like to be dancers and positions, I think that's how entrepreneurship should be chosen. Because it's just a different way of life. You know, like we and you would probably agree with me, Krishna, that we do crazy stuff like accounting at some point of the day marketing, at some point, I just built my financial model of, you know, projections of to investors, prospective investors. So I think it's the craziest day that somebody would have, you know, in like, a long time, and we live that day over and over again, every single day. I don't know if that's the story and the like that. So that's why when entrepreneur, by the way, the only job that I did before I became an entrepreneur was being a scientist in a lab working on DNA and microbiology. And, you know, I was the molecular biologist, right after my master's at Newcastle and UK only. But I figured that I wanted to see stuff that I could build. Right? Oh, that's how.

Krishna Jonnakadla  07:07

Interesting. So let's finish off the dad part amazing. More power to him at 70. Most people hang up their boots by that time. But, but I am of the opinion that there is all of that is just in popular domain. People who are really passionate about what they're doing for them there is never hanging up boots in their whole life, right? It is what gives them that life. It is what gives them that vitality and energy. And the day you stop doing what you passionately believe in. That's the day in some sense, you take care, because that's the natural process of the word. Seinfeld, Jerry Seinfeld was a famous comedian, you may know, doesn't stop creating comedy, just because the sitcom The Seinfeld that he was in and helped create has actually ended he continues to work on comedy. But otherwise, let me ask you this. There is some thing in that particular inspiration, you saw your dad, one aspect of it was that you realize that you could do it. But there are some other aspects that attract as well. Maybe it's how that person deals with people, maybe he's able to command a degree of respect. Or maybe he's living an independent life where you're saying, Okay, I see, maybe neighbors, I see people going to a job and combined but looks like my dad is, you know, the Lord of his domain, so to speak, whether other aspects that sort of struck a well and therefore made a deep impression on you. Great question.

Kinner Sachdev  08:38

No, Krishna had never gone that deep to think about, you know, what, in his lifestyle or his, in his maybe actions inspired me and I think I if I, if I were to talk about that I did not like the manufacturing business that he was into, you know, the, I like automation. I like technology. And when I want to build something, I want to automate things, less human intervention, it should scale by itself, it should pay by itself. You know, I love what WhatsApp could do with 17 people and a manufacturing unit is on the other spectrum of it. So I think, possibly it was the best for him to be independent, and for him to be recognized for what he was creating. And he was in a medical disposables business, you know, manufacturing, plastic, all the plastic equipment and, you know, tubes and stuff that goes into patients and the passion that he had. And I remember one thing that he would always tell me is that, you know, the amount of effort and honesty that I put into this business is so much that if my own son was in an accident, somehow, I could not feel guilty that my equipment is going to be used on him. So, you know, some of these things like his ability to be the creator of something beyond just, you know, being you know, in our day to day job of, you know, somebody telling him what to do. I mean, he was deciding on things. And now I realized that in my They won't journey and then you're never in that position of compete, you know, to freedom, you're always either responding to customer needs, or to the market needs, investor needs at times, right. But I think you still have a degree of freedom to create. That's, that's what I think this is the most exciting thing for me.

Krishna Jonnakadla  10:24

Interesting point, and I'll put my own touch on it in a second. I want to go back to what you said a few seconds ago in terms of what most people do in lifetimes, or maybe in a single job. You live that aspect every single day as an entrepreneur, I usually give a metaphor that, in any startup that you work, you do things in a year, what you normally do outside in five years, or even six years, eight years, because the learning curve is just just so steep, right? If we I commonly give the example of this pizza metaphor, if the whole team got together last night, and then we ordered pizza, because we were working late. The way a normal in a normal job it happens is the following morning, you come to office, the pizza box has disappeared. magically, somebody has disposed to talk, to the extent that there is an invisible hand that has gone through that. But when you come to a start up the following morning, you will still see the fader box there, you will see is to still see all the remnants, which means all of those things use you need to take care of yourself. So that's how startups are. But that also means that you are the master of your own destiny. Right? So there's so much that you can determine and that depending upon where you are in life and what your outlook is, that could be a burden or a curse, or or it could be a burden or a boon. If you are somebody who wants who wants to determine his own destiny, yes, yes, you have all the tools, but also means that you have so much more responsibility. I usually when I was in banking and financial services, I'm still in FinTech now. But way back when I was in the solutions, and bizdev side, I used to wonder how funnily in a normal bank, a teller or a cashier, as we call them here, has almost no freedom. So you they clock in at eight o'clock, or 830, in the morning, when the bank opens, and then sometime around 330, or four, when the blood bank closes, they have to match those counters. And in in places like the US, you don't even have lunch breaks in India, where they conveniently put up that lunch break and then disappear for lunch break, although that scene is changing in private banks. And that Teller, possibly at that point in time was earning a little more than minimum wage. Right. So there was earning $50,000. On the contract. On the contrary, the bank manager possibly earns three or four times the wage of that, Teller, but the bank manager is free to move about. And what most people don't see is the degree of responsibility that the two individuals have, right, while the teller is largely constrained, and then he or she is actually stuck to that pay responsibilities also so much more smaller, they are all they're doing is just managing that counter. But on the contrary, the bank manager has to manage the entire branch is responsible for the business. So an entrepreneurs life is very similar to that. So you have a great degree of responsibility, but and so with with great freedom, they say great comes great responsibility, right? So most people only pay attention to the freedom but never pay attention to the responsibility part.

Kinner Sachdev  13:35

 You put it really well, I I completely agree with you. I mean, the responsibility, but probably for some people, it is another cake. You know, they like they want to be the masters of their own destiny. And I like the way you put it. I think that's another lucrative point that we are able to see. And we will focus on and that's what really nourish enables, you know, so we the whole point here is that we can let more people be the masters of their own destiny, you know, start up as, as entrepreneurs and you know, they don't have to wait for Rob, basically just planning a large venture. I mean, some of the people who started on our platform have gone from zero to a few $1,000 in under two to three weeks, including a 16 year old kid who made about five lakh rupees in just under six to seven weeks are teaching other students, how can they write essays to get into good universities, and also...

Krishna Jonnakadla  14:29

More examples with we'll come to that. So tell tell us what sort of scale you are at right now. What numbers are numbers? What sort of numbers are you looking at?

Kinner Sachdev  14:40

So we have a freemium model, multiple plans to choose from. We also do enable people sometimes they come asking for premium plans and ask for a huge discount because they can't afford it or they are professors teachers. In total, we have so far gone to empower close to 70,000 academies, only the public number is still 16,000. Because we updated on a monthly basis. There are, there are amazing stories there. Hundreds of domains, learners from around 37 countries come on these academies and monthly active users across top or touching about 300,000 people. So it's not the total registered user base. This is like people who seriously learn on these platforms.

Krishna Jonnakadla  15:30

These are people who are engaged, not a million people who visited but only 30,000. But these houses real These are real engaged users who are learning from those courses.

Kinner Sachdev  15:41

Yes, so about 300,000. You know, users who are engaged.

Krishna Jonnakadla  15:45

Wow, that's amazing. Oh, any, any light, you can throw on the revenue numbers.

Kinner Sachdev  15:53

So I mean, again, I, I wouldn't want to come close to like, talk about a lot of revenue numbers, because we are closing our round two right now. And I mean, this information is still under wraps will be closed around and you know, it becomes public, but at the same time I can talk about, so we have crossed people touching close to $1.5 million of gmv, made through these academies in the last 10 months, nine to 10 months.

Krishna Jonnakadla  16:23

And these are monthly?

Kinner Sachdev  16:24

No, this is the total gmv part, you have to know that close to 55 to 60% of transactions go offline. So this is the online recorded transactions like you would have a lot of people large transactions happening through any ft transfers and PGM wallets and euro bank transfers like Thai Institute, or does a Thai accelerator, you know, venture accelerator, which is quite popular. It's one of the only online venture accelerator right. And, you know, the type accelerator revenue all flows through the usual registration fee and methods offline. So this is this is merely what we have captured, you know, fraction of the total gmv. But this is the captured online gmv for these academies. And also there are close to 30% courses would be free. Because a lot of people, you know, also do not have tons of free distribution of content to our platform, there are even schools that are not selling the content, but using the platform to take their daily classes. And we've got organizations like companies teaching their employees upskilling, building induction programs and things like that they're out there point fraud uses for the platform, so to say.

Krishna Jonnakadla  17:36

Amazing 300,000 engaged users 17,000 academies. Oh my God, that's insane. And in those 17,000 academies, talk about the spectrum. What sort of creators? Have you seen? What sort of changes have you seen happen as a result of that?

Kinner Sachdev  17:56

 Sure. So 20, close to 21% of content creators, or the academies are built in the domains of K 12. by K 12. I mean, the things that schools students kind of learn from and then the second largest category is professional development. And also you're talking about leadership and skills particularly for from you know, let's say college students to corporates and young professionals, then we've got close to nine to 10%. On it information technology. We've got, you know, specific domains then beyond that coming skill development in, in all kinds of areas, even like people teaching how to build refrigerators, to mobile phones, to you know, all kinds of stuff. So close to out of these there are close to 700 different categories or domains that have, you know, that have courses in them. You need courses. I'll give you another interesting course, which I was surprised about just a few days ago. So it's called shaadi with rich What that means is how do you get married to a rich guy or a girl. And this has apparently done a few lakhs. So you're also close to $3,000 in just, you know, under a few weeks, and we've had so many interesting domains. It's just mind blowing. I like to compare it with a library of the future where all the domains you had books written on, I think online space or online entrepreneurs would surpass that or, you know, cross those domains or the number of those domains in possibly next 18 to 18 months to two years. So it's just amazing.

Krishna Jonnakadla  19:36

So, this is interesting. We'll continue that and talk about the scale story. But let's go back to the beginnings. The time when you were running the consulting business, Help Help me understand how you went from being a molecular biologist. You're not molecule, a biologist that is in such a radically different profession, as I know, for a lot of at least viewers in the south will pause for a sec.

Kinner Sachdev  20:12

No, no, we're good to go. So yeah, we're just getting the the charged background noise.

Krishna Jonnakadla  20:19

So for a lot of people in the south, they know that there is a way kadesh or Balaji temple in Tirupati. In South India. In fact, the head priest, who is who's actually a descendant, so you have to be a descendant of the previous sorry, a son of the previous head priests to actually serve. You're the only one. So the way the rules of that temple are that Sanctum Sanctorum. Only the members of that family are allowed to perform puja to that date. way longer. Yes, that is like 1000 year old tradition, more than 1000 year old tradition. So this gentleman, Avi Ramana, dikshitar, who as his name is he, he's an MSc PhD. And I think m Phil, in molecule biology from Carnegie Mellon. And he did that and he came back and the call of, according to him, the call of serving the Lord was so strong that he continued, decided to continue his priesthood profession. And recently, the previous Andhra Pradesh government had abolished that right and the next Chief Minister restored it, it went through all kinds of political ups and downs. So he's, so what's with the molecular biology, and then the consulting business? I know, you said you wanted to work on stuff that you see a direct impact in, but in most cases, one of the biggest frustrations I faced as a consultant. And was because by the time I got into consulting, I'd already tried my hand at entrepreneurship. And I realized that in consulting, I would make recommendations. Most of them wouldn't get acted upon. It was in some sense, a political tool to drum up some support internally. They just wanted an outsider to come in endorser same point of view with different language so to speak. Well, I'm oversimplifying it, even the consulting profession is similar, isn't it? So two questions? Where did the leap to consulting happen? And isn't that also indirect?

Kinner Sachdev  22:21

 I mean, so I would answer question indirectly. But I think there's a longish answer that I need to give for this. And I've never spoken about this earlier. So you know, there is a field in ancient Indian Studies called hieroglyphics, and also called palmistry in the, in some sects, and some formulas or silence, right.

Krishna Jonnakadla  22:42

So finding meaning for ancient symbols.

Kinner Sachdev  22:46

And as well as the symbols and the, you know, the symbols on your hand palm of fingers. So it's all it's all part of the same science, right?

Krishna Jonnakadla  22:55

 Oh, I didn't know that. palmistry was part of hieroglyphics.

Kinner Sachdev  22:57

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, let me let me tell you an interesting fact. Now, some people did you know the circular holes on your fingers, they mean that you like to take interest in one, how many domains you know, so you are a jack of all trades, a master of some, and this is deep science of palmistry, you know, when you read quite a bit, and I've gone through probably 1520 books on the topic and open to so many experts. So I have holes on all my fingers, right? Like, okay, so there are chakras are more circular chakra. This, this means and the very few people will be able to tell you that I have a, I have a, you know, an interest or ability to shift gears from one domain to others very quickly, it's not a strength, it could be a weakness and a strength at times depends on how you choose it. So, you know, and this gives a bit of a learning ability to the person that you know, you can jump change gears and like to dabble in a lot of things then to become the deepest architect or, or the export of one domain. So, this is a part of nature that led me to experience a lot of different roles in over my life, you know, which is, which started with me studying medicine. And, you know, by the way, I mean, another fact about me is that I was one of the youngest patent holders in India invented in the earthquake sensing alarm, where, you know, I sold the license to it to another company, and this was when I was in 12th standard, right, and that was a mechanical electronic device. And from there I chose to become a biotechnologist realized that I don't like to work only on DNA and that time also I applied for a couple of patents and robotics because the equipment that we were using at the lab for DNA extraction machines, which were like 2 million pounds and those kinds of costs, so I made like a jugaad cheaper version of those invented that and, and then consulting gave me a lot of excitement jumping from design to marketing strategies to you know, work With the CEOs on how they could improve systems within their organization, so I think this is a weakness, you know, a strength and a curse, because you you like to jump from one domain to the other quickly. And that's, that's where probably I'm trying to address your question here, then what, how and why the consulting to this to molecular biology because this is my cake. You know, like, I like to learn a lot. I mean, it's a boring year for me when I haven't picked a couple of scales, you know? So that's, that's the, that's the interest domain. And I think entrepreneurship, specifically in what I'm doing now, you know, like I said, there are 700 plus domains now. So this is a lot of excitement, you know, powering other entrepreneurs through technology.

Krishna Jonnakadla  25:43

Right, right. No, I can totally relate to that. Because when I jumped into consulting, and the beauty of it was most consulting at least the business consulting ones are shorter sprints. So they're not multi year assignments you do very pointed once you do three months, or maybe six months, tops, that's where they end. And my superior at that point, I've used to quip that Krishna gets bored very easily. Now there are and he is a perfect person who fits into the consulting world because you're usually in Sprint's and not in marathons, like in front aspect.

Kinner Sachdev  26:18

That's exactly how it is. And let me tell you, Krishna, I mean, I have looked at hands of people, because this was a hobby for a long time. In fact, at one point of time, I'd applied for a research project, like a PhD at Cambridge, where I wanted to connect the field of chemistry with genomics, you know, that there is a connection to the genome that we humans carry, and a part of that has phenotypic expression on your fingers and hands. You know, typical expression is a typical word in the world of genetics. And I mean, I, I ended up not going for it, because that would have gone again, too deep into the domain. But the idea here is that I've analyzed a lot of hands and people who become entrepreneurs usually, like sprints in different domains that excite them. And you know, learning is a fundamental requirement like eating and exercising for for some of your meeting.

Krishna Jonnakadla  27:09

So so the larger personalities trade, trade, there is curiosity. Right? So I think you're right, because you're, you're so curious. And you want to find out how things work. And you want to make things work your if anything, you're actually so fascinated by how things work and putting things together. But that's amazing. So seismograph I suppose that's what you invented?

Kinner Sachdev  27:31

No, it wasn't a seismograph, it was an earthquake sensing alarm. So I'll tell you the concept at that time was when the when the tremors start, you know, sometimes they started for 3.6 3.7. And it's very tough for people to analyze that it's the tremors have started, and there are pre shocks before an earthquake. So if if the pre shock is captured by an alarm, and it tells you that, you know, there could be a bigger tremor coming behind this, and you quickly move on to the table or out of the house. So that was the device, you know, it would detect small tremors, pretty shocks, and give you a warning that immediately you jump onto the table or move out of the house because a bigger one could be coming.

Krishna Jonnakadla  28:11

Wow. That's great. Well, that's awesome. Was it part of some science project? or How did you end up doing that?

Kinner Sachdev  28:18

No, this was just my preparatory time for the MBBS entrance examination. And I was too old cramming up the facts, and I decided I don't want to be a doctor. I mean, this is too much of symptomatic cramming that I will have to do so I figured that I use my time for something else. So that's what it was. And I remember that was there was a huge earthquake at that time, and also the year that I'm talking to was in it. Yes, I think to have no idea say no, I thought I can't exactly recall no more than 2002 it was probably 2000. So we'll okay. I mean, 2300 10,000 or 98. And I was, I'd seen that. And I just left my studies. And this idea hit me that you know, and I've read a bit about it. And I figured that I mean, if there was a way for people to get it, and even now I I mean, just a few days ago, my team just was saying that, oh, are the lights moving? I mean, is there an earthquake? So you're not never sure? Right? I mean, you don't take the action quickly. Because I mean, you need to analyze, either it's a big wave or a smaller one, you don't even find out if it's really happening. So that's a warning system. It's an early warning system says mograph actually measures the scale the scale the Richter scale, earthquake, yes, that cascade. So this was a different device.

Krishna Jonnakadla  29:35

Interesting. And and then, so, you already said why you went into molecule okay. So then why molecule biology, what was fascinating about it?

Kinner Sachdev  29:44

So I think the the most automated system in the world, or all self governing, evolving systems anywhere in the world are not in computers, but in human body and in organisms and in nature. They are in nature. So that's what fascinated me. And I, I used to be super curious. In fact, I remember the time when I was in eighth or ninth, I used to eat a lot of comic books. And I would thought a lot out of a frog. And I once injected it into a dog. I mean, luckily, the dog didn't die. But I mean, you know, like a young mind trying to create time, arrows. I mean, you know, the myxoid speeches. So, I mean, I was fascinated. And the more I read about it, while I was preparing for MBBS, I figured that I do want to cram symptoms, I want to get into the depth of it, learn more about, you know, how this could be learned and manipulated. I mean, how you could build systems that work in an organic and inorganic format. But when I got into it, I realized, I mean, when I did my Master's in biotechnology at one of the top universities in the UK, I realized that I mean, the journey is not as simple. It's not one of creation, part of discovery, you don't create systems manipulating nature, that easily you discover things, and then try to, you know, just steer around them in very small ways. So, you know, the the entire rotating around genome manipulation, and all of that, you know, genetically modified organisms is a vague kind of ethical dilemma domain, you know, I mean, people are still not sure about if it's right or wrong. And I figured at that point, that I mean, I would want to do something more interesting. And I think it's the curiosity for the next domain that had already setting wanted to play with computing and other domains.

Krishna Jonnakadla  31:32

Interesting. So now that you touched on the genome part, I think the term self organizing systems is a very fascinating term. Well, it sounds very boring. But for those of us who can think and appreciate the power of systems, when you start seeing these things in nature, it's very fascinating to study how they work, maybe not at an X ray moleculer or at cell level. But the other part of the genome sequencing. Right now, at least the available knowledge states that all of global population, at least the ones in Europe, in an Asia, when you look at it at a mitochondrial level, we possibly all evolved only from three separate ladies, not even 300. Yeah, so according to that, so three women, mother, the entire, maybe seven bill, out of the 7 billion, maybe he's 6 billion or six and a half billion people. And when I read the news like that, I usually think we still don't know what we don't know. We only because we have this much information, we believe mitoku mitochondria is enough for us to determine that we know the origins of species, but not so. But be that as it may. So then the consulting part of that, then what happened with that venture, and when did you jump on to Knorish?

Kinner Sachdev  33:00

So with during the consulting paid term, we worked with a lot of large organizations, as I mentioned, and I figured also at that time, that while you are consulting, you're a part of the puzzle at all times, you know, unless you pay the partner system and you know, you've built an organization where you bringing on other people at the same level, and you know, that you kind of throw that into a systematized consulting setup, which we were not interested in, you know, we I was fascinated by systems and, you know, by scaling up, how to help more and more people and how to build something that runs automatically. So that's where we had started working on the prototypes of knowledge of your own couple of like, even before the launch couple of years ago, but I think the time was really 2017, early 2017, when we started building prototypes, and started looking at, you know, a marketplace model or a SaaS model. And till 2019, I did not jump full time. But that's, that's when we, I took the plunge and 100 x.vc invested like a small check, just at that time. And, you know, just three, four months later, when the pandemic had hit, we raised another round of 2.5 crores. And that kind of, you know, just strengthen the entire thought around it. And we, at the same time, we, you know, we decided a long time ago that eventually consulting could be productized, or, you know, whatever we were helping people with would be automated and through technology. So that's where we completely jumped on to notice the entire team of that other consulting setup was absorbed here. And we finished some of the last projects. In fact, one of the last consulting project was for one of the subsidiaries of Wipro, you know, and we just finished it last year, late last year. So, yeah, that's how So in some sense, a evolution, if you will, although it's not an evolution of the model itself, you sort of merged into this product. I would company. Yeah. So I mean, I wouldn't use probably the word evolution because there's nothing better or worse in consulting or automating, I think we picked the first love, which is automation technology. So I mean, it's more to follow your passion. And I think more excited about how can you help people do exactly the same thing, you know, automate their businesses, you know, scale up, every single part of it should be technology oriented and driven to automated systems, you know, whether it's sales, its operational delivery of your content management of day to day operations. So that's what it stands for. And that's what we also did.

Krishna Jonnakadla  35:38

 Great. So let's dig into the product a little bit. When you what you launched in the beginning, and what you see now, was it the same, but because based on what you're describing in terms of automation, that is a much more of an abstract Canvas, and a much more abstract concept versus where you have you ended up right now. So Talk Talk to us about what version Did you launch first? And how did you pick up feedback? What sort of experiences do you have? Did you make mistakes, you do stumble, what discovery is doing?

Kinner Sachdev  36:14

So okay, first answer to did we make mistakes is actually, it's all everything is a mistake, there are probably a few things that go right in between. So it's like that, you know, cause I mean, in retrospect, when you look at things, you feel like, okay, that could have been done better. So I think everything's kind of a try. And it could be done as a mistake. But then you get things right. And, yes, the first version that we launched was a basic version, where you could not even build your website or app now you could build your entire, you know, business operation there on the site. So you had like fixed templates that you could use, and this is I'm talking of 2019, early 19, you couldn't find all of that. So we had like, a basic MVP is that we had companies trying all you know, because we have consulting partners, and we would now and then forcing them to experiment, play with the product and constantly listening to feedback, comparing it why they did not go for it. And at that time, most of the people would not go for it. One of the reasons was, we were trying to also be an LMS. You know, like, just solve the problem for for training delivery within organizations, because that's who the target audience was in the consulting set up for what we eventually figured out that the real passion lied in helping people solve the problem of sales, you know, so then the product started taking a completely different shape. We figured that the real success of any business, whether it's consulting, or you know, what knowledge so, Academy is to our eventually building effective sales funnels. So the product started taking shape where our goal started becoming How can they build better sales funnels? You know, and what are multiple sales funnels that different businesses use? In fact, I this is one of the favorite domains right now you're on fascinated by sales funnels. And I think in nature also, everything's a funnel, from the sperm trying to find out of millions of pounds, trying to get into the, to the egg when no one gets in everything. Everything that you see around is run through funnels. And in fact, I see the funnel that you could run on what we are talking about right now, you know, this, this logic to do when when you go to events, when, you know, let's say a teacher is talking to 50 students or using WhatsApp, so I see funnels everywhere now when that's what the products direction has become. It enables people to build funnels. And we have learned this by constant feedback. So we talk to every time somebody rejects his or Chon, they go to another platform or some paid a little piece of themselves. We always go and talk to them. We never try this that you know. So my comment there is every time Let's learn what's the reason Let's learn what's the future. And you know, at the same time, we are at knowledge, our acquisition funnels, for customers are exactly the same funnels that are the funnels for any Academy or launch. So what I'm trying to say is that the methods, the technology, the traffic channels, none of that changes. And this is this has been the favorite domain of learning for me for the past, I think, eight months or nine months, you know, not in the beginning. And and then I realized once I started seeing a lot of teachers and experts come online, I felt, you know, they could teach like they, they all like to distribute knowledge. And you know, like we'd seen in the Indian libraries, they're all gurus and they like to distribute yarn. Yeah, what the ability to sell is two out of 100 that's what we had to nail, you know, down here, how can we increase that ability multiple times? Like how can we help people become better selves, so their entire course in the entire direction started changing from there. In fact, the product design is also moving into becoming a funnel builder for online courses. That's that's the idea that how do we get you to say.

Krishna Jonnakadla  39:58

It's such a I would say I don't even if there is a term where I could use less understood, even less understood part of less understood, especially the funnel concept and understanding the psyche of because there's so many aspects in it, isn't it there is understanding the psych psychology of the people that are going to come on it understanding their desires, tap tapping into their wants, getting copyright, copywriting correct making the right offer, because you cannot make a big offer too soon, you have to move them through the funnel in the right way, you have to make sure that you capture the right people at the drop off points in each and every stage of the funnel, that means you have spent a great deal of time thinking, understanding the conversation that goes into the mind, of course, in the mind of the user, or the potential buyer.

Kinner Sachdev  40:53

So here are two angles to what we do Krishna, there is one that I learned it for ourselves, like how can nourish and attract both people who come on the platform, the second part is the science of it. And as a scientist, you know, basically, I like to decipher the basic understanding of the fundamentals of a domain. So you know, I, I've personally read probably close to 1520 books on the on this domain in the last seven, eight months. And I like to read a lot. And, you know, some of these have been like the early understandings of Ogilvie, you know, we're working on advertising talks about the pacing, what are the different stages, you know, awareness, consideration and conversion. And believe me, some of the best guys performance marketing agencies to, you know, ad agencies that I will don't understand or implement the basic fundamentals. Right. So it's like, one of the stories that one of the best sellers on our platform, you know, told me and spoke out is, so you know, when somebody like a large organization is trying to sell a toothpaste, and let's say the toothpaste has solved, you know, we all have heard of a toothpaste that's called sorry. Now, you can't just get the audience to see the toothpaste in the store and expect they'll buy it. But most of the people try and do that when they show an ad to someone saying toothpaste with salt by now. Doesn't make sense, right? So what what is okay? When we say how do you run and build a funnel, you're the first stage is aware now show them buildings, television advertisements, you know, radio campaigns, let them know that toothpaste with soiled can make your feet stronger. And they've heard it right. Now, the second stage, when they drive into a store, make sure your product is available at in the store. And there are canopies or basics, you know, coatings or something put in the store, which is a consideration, remind them it's available here. The third step is give the incentive to the store so that the paste is in reach, they can pick it up and put it in their bag, the shopping bag. So that's conversion. And this is the basic idea of sales funnels, you're running it, whether it's online, whether it's digital, whether you're running it in the real world, you go through the same funnel cycle when you're trying to sell something.

Krishna Jonnakadla  43:06

Right. I'll share two very interesting stories. But I'll come to that in a moment on this part. Let's talk about the beginnings of it. And I want to still unpack this funnel thing a little more. Because it's a very fascinating concept. And it is a simple concept. Which doesn't mean it's easy to do. If it's if it's a simple, it's a simple concept, if mastered, can make huge impact, even for the very small people, small sellers and business, big business business.

Kinner Sachdev  43:37

This is for everybody. I mean, I would say you are you're selling, basic golf, you know, let's say on an auto rickshaw, you know, you're selling maybe any kind o+f newspaper or a bottle or, you know, maybe for a class, whatever your product or anything else be. You have to utilize the funding, you have to understand how they work.

Krishna Jonnakadla  43:57

Right. We'll we'll we'll talk more about that. But how did you fund First, the consulting business and this one? And if I remember correctly, you almost went bankrupt. In the first iteration that you were building, nourish, isn't it? Last, the first check, so to speak, go into that a little more. And also talk about the initial journey when you launch because I always want like to touch upon. There are two kinds of products I've always seen. There are products that will launch and they pick up traction. But most entrepreneurs hide the backstory for some reason. They want to give the world the impression that I launched and boom, it works. And we are we playing to the hands of the media that wants to portray everything as overnight success. So how did you fund and what were the initial days like 16,000 didn't happen? Just out of thin air.

Kinner Sachdev  44:57

So the story was Basically, combined with a consulting package at that time, you know, we were the consulting businesses don't need to get finance, it's like you, you know, there were times when I would go to, to a client and pitch that, you know, we could do this for you. And they'll be like how it's done, we'll tell them, we've done it for these guys, here's the advanced check up or so if you're really not getting any raising any funds for a consulting setup, especially at the boutique level. I mean, unless you wanted to open three offices in two countries and stuff like that, I mean, you're not going to need heavy funds to raise and work on that. So we were channeling part of those consulting revenues into knowledge. So there was never a day when we would say that, you know, we we struggled to fund it and keep it operational. At the same time, there were only two full time people working on commission, you know, and for a very long time, so just the head of VP of engineering that we have, or we will use been with us for a long time now. And before we even build the SaaS product, he was there just thinking of, you know, like a marketplace or something that we could build. And, in fact, we even hired a third party Tech Shop to build the first prototype. So the first prototype was done outside and we didn't have any tech talent in house, because we were just doing consulting. So there was no, no tough day like that. So to say, because we were consulting. However, at the same time, a lot of times, he could hit us that there is no revenue coming, right? I mean, you're building it, building it spending a decent amount, you know, which you could actually a part of flat way, personally, I mean, in a consulting setup invested in real estate, or I mean, do whatever with it. So yes, there were tons of times when we were really worried about Will it ever pick up the rebuttal ever? I mean, we had gone 50 lakhs close to 50 lakhs in the development phase itself. And we used to think a lot of times, I mean, it's worth it, we could have invested in for marketing of our consulting services itself. I mean, you know, this is a decision we had to kind of decide on and just instinctively, we understood that, you know, this, the time will come, it's inevitable that the online will become more powerful than offline. So that's, that's the reason we kept working at it. Yes, there was a time when we had hope of getting funded, filed running the consulting set up through a government organization, you know, that kind of announced the competition. And only at the idea stage, we were just an idea and a prototype at that stage. But we went through several rounds, you know, there. This was a skill development, innovations, competition, and we won it, it was announced with the newspaper, but because of the regime change in the organizational structure there and, you know, things that were out of control of our hands, the money never hit the accounts, you know, and we never changed it beyond a few weeks, because when we realized it's very tough to match pace with or understand the nitty gritties, or the mechanics of how governmental operations can be molded. And there was no interest to learn that too. So we quickly moved on and started focusing on what we were doing. And that's one of the beliefs, I think you got to focus your energy on where you believe the positive outcomes will come up with, there's no point, you know, trying to run after a thing that didn't work or the system that didn't work as per your expectation. So yes, that's, that was a time. But then, after we got a validation with 100x, you know, that gave us a lot of confidence that okay, you know, the time is right, and the pandemic wasn't in sight at that point of time. You know, the the investment came in December 2019. And the second round also had been closed before the pandemic, lockdown was announced. The money came two days after the lockdown. So that was like, kind of very, I mean, it's, it's an interesting time. And in fact, I said no to a major Fund, which was actually which had confirmed that they wanted to invest in us. But I said no to them, because I was going ahead with somebody who was ready to give the money quickly. And also, now look at look back at it, I feel, you know, good things happened, because I think our intentions were poor. We just wanted to kind of get into the first love domain.

Krishna Jonnakadla  49:07

So I want to feel that start debate, because you said, when you won this competition, you had a prototype, which means you it wasn't like you didn't have any users yet. But when you raised this first check from 100 x.vc, did you have any one is do you have users? Do you have real revenues?

Kinner Sachdev  49:28

Yes, we had a little bit of revenue at that point. Because we, you know, we and we had users as well, because while we were consulting, I was still selling, you know, we had cracked a few accounts, but they were wrong. They were less than 10 accounts at that point of time, you know, under three 400 total academies on the platform, which included so many experiments. So yes, that's that they were there were people the prime sellers, you know, but they were no, let's say they were no big numbers. Most to show for at that point of time, but I mean, luckily 100x VCs model was the first check model. So they wanted to see the promise in the product. And the product was well appreciated. I mean, you know, my my idea. And my thought always is that the UI eats good features for lunch, you know, every day. So it's like, you, if you focus on a good experience, and a good feel and look for your platform, you could even compromise a few features. At some point of time, of course, you have got to bring the full fight on. But you know, this, this is always true. An application that looks better with even a few features, the same will do well. So that was always the case. You know, we are focused a lot on on that. And whatever we had failed at the kind of use cases we had were strong.

Krishna Jonnakadla  50:46

Yeah, I know, I did that. That's awesome. Ui eats features for lunch. That's, I've never heard that line being said before, but

Kinner Sachdev  50:53

this is me I stick this is where I'm not quoting any. This is, this is me, thinking it every day that you know that we cannot compromise on design.

Krishna Jonnakadla  51:02

So we'll put the quote out in the episode patient say it's purely keynote, it's sure. So let's so so let's talk about how the 17,000 happened. You launched, because for our average person, they're looking at all the there aren't places like yours, right? Most people think of YouTube. And for the ones that are deep inside this, they know of places like Vimeo, where you could launch but nothing comes close. None of these come close to having funnels or being able to charge having your own audience in because you own that audience eventually, because they're all part of this while you're still a platform. There were in the Udemy Coursera. All these are well known. So in in the beginning, was it seen as a radical product, which was way different? Which also, the other side of that radical product is that it looks so new that not a lot of people are even willing to touch it. So that's the other downside of a radical product. So how did the 16,000 happened? And what was the perception perception? What was the perception?

Kinner Sachdev  52:20

So okay, Krishna, I'll be I'll be honest here, there are a few other products in the US as well as in India that are a bit similar. You know, obviously, we have put a lot of effort on having a superior UI those find differences on how easy it is to do. So there are tons of benefits. But at the same time, I realized that we have to get into a blue ocean, you know, I I loved what Ohio had done without looking to compete with a make my trips or the yatras of the world saying, you know, I'm just going to rebrand hotels with some basic requirements. And he did it after the master of the blue ocean strategies. Peter Thiel guided ritesh in that fellowship that he went through in the early days of Oh, Robin, you know, which was this person venture? So, and I figured helping people build sales funnels for online courses, is that devotion, you know, and there is nobody else anywhere in the world that's focusing on that. So our entire product is now coming and sharpening the edges that helps you build funnels. So how did we get to the number? We kept working on the funnels? You know, the idea was, how do you so we experimented with all traffic channels, you know, and funnels e traffic, every funnel needs a traffic source. So we experimented from Facebook, to YouTube to your Google ads, organic efforts on webinars, we figured that webinars do really well, if you've got deep knowledge to distribute, that leads to tangible leads, you know, and those leads are handed over to our sales team again, through automation no to HubSpot, that. So our entire enterprise stack is HubSpot. Our calls are made to HubSpot CRM, and HubSpot, our blog, you know, our knowledge base everything's on HubSpot stack. So and and it's a quite a similar promise for HubSpot, you know, they want to help SMEs and have your large businesses made better inbound leads happen. So that's that's kind of their differentiator and blue ocean to me. So that's what we were at. You know, we were just experimenting and learning out funnels. And I think, if I was to rate one to 10, where we are on our journey, I think we have just found two. If 10 is the highest goal, I'm being very honest about it. I thought it looks super exciting. I mean, the more deeper we get in we are cracking things we are learning things about funnels, which are amazing, you know, so, we are trying to and this month is going to be another radical experiment, we are going to take 80% of our efforts from completely inorganic to organic, you know, we will generate 80% of our leads without advertisements. So This is, you know, these are these are some of the strategies and experiments that are giving us excellent results.

Krishna Jonnakadla  55:07

So that's awesome. I loved the things that you spoke about, which is how you're brought in systems and then tools to enable it. But I want to unpack the 17,000 number, how long did it take for you to hit the first step?

Kinner Sachdev  55:23

So first time we had got, during the consulting setup, you know, we will I see, every time we will go for a consulting page, we'll feel like okay, these guys would also be the users of knowledge platform, we would we would force it through, you know, put it in front of them that why don't you guys do this, when that time, we will not worry about how much money they're going to pay. It was just I we need people to just try it, you know? And you just say,

Krishna Jonnakadla  55:48

Oh, yeah. And then so in that. So in hitting those 1000s, what were some key inflection points where did it if you were to talk about maybe a channel or a tactic, the top three, or even top five that really cracked it open for you.

Kinner Sachdev  56:09

So the the most powerful follow that I feel for people for any business these days is Facebook. I think a lot of people don't understand, but Facebook has far better and stronger reach and understanding of their audience than any other advertisement platform out there. Right. I mean, obviously, you can run, try for intent through Google, because people are searching for the domain, probably. But believe me, Facebook is just amazing. So you know that that worked really well. For us. Facebook was one of the biggest channels and sources and then slowly we figured out that the funnels that you build with awareness through academic knowledge, no or or, you know, edutainment is, is the best. So teach people what you know, well, you know, through the consulting startup, we've learned a lot of things about content creation, production of content, you know, to whatever we were learning about funnels, so we started teaching back to people to one Academy. And also we have a knowledge Academy, where we interviewed people like the ex CEO of Sony, Sanjeev Kapoor, the chef, you know, to a lot of successful guys who do well on the platform. So we open up their secrets. And people want to hear that. You're also that that leads to funnel generation. So that's what we learned from HubSpot. You don't let any traffic go waste, you don't waste any funnel. So we started capturing those audiences, which only started happening in the last three to four months, and we've been doubling down on those efforts are constantly over. That's, that's what's kind of creepy.

Krishna Jonnakadla  57:47

Interesting. And at what point did you feel that? I think we have something that can become big. And did you did you wait too long? or looking back in hindsight, which is always 2020 feels like it was the right time. So when did you had you set any parameters for yourself? Where you said, okay, when this happens, I'm gonna hang up my boots here and then switch over? How did you make that?

Kinner Sachdev  58:19

So know that the idea was, even if I get the slightest support, and in, you know, spark to show that, okay, this is this could really work and scale. Well, I will jump in full time, you know, so I mean, entrepreneurs are risk takers, and I think it still wasn't as much of a risk as it or a lot of other people doing, you know, obviously, this gets a bit scary, because, you know, you don't have that big guarantee of a paycheck coming in as it would to, you know, if you were doing regular stuff or, you know, you're in a in a traditional setup. But yes, I mean, that's that's what the symbol or the signal was that okay, you know, this would work.

Krishna Jonnakadla  58:56

Right. So, I I promised that when you were talking about funnels, I'll share two stories. Have you watched the movie focus?

Kinner Sachdev  59:05

Focus. This is when we just might know the where he's a con artist is that.

Krishna Jonnakadla  59:13

 That's right. That's right.

Kinner Sachdev  59:15

Yeah, long time ago as when it came out. Yes, I have.

Krishna Jonnakadla  59:18

So so Will Smith and Margaret Robbie. This is fabulous scene where they take a Chinese businessman who's caught this each to gamble. I think it's a five minutes seem it's it's a master class. When you explain the when you were talking about Ogilvy on advertising that is a perfect five minute explanation of how a funnel actually works.

Kinner Sachdev  59:49

Wow. So no, they were great. You thanks for suggesting that. I mean, I've seen this movie pre funnel love days. I mean, like I think this is already like I think this is about four or five years old.  I mean, yes, yes. Yeah, I think four years old, this whole pre funnel of days. So now Now I will take it.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:00:07

So get the subtle ways in which funnels work, especially the way you, you said, okay, you put up a heading. Somewhere on Facebook, somebody sees some post, obviously, there's good loads of money involved. You don't just put a product out out there saying that, okay, there's salt in this in this toothpaste. But you actually get people thinking up Aapkae Toothpaste mai namak hai kya?. So the weird thing about that is when people watch that ad because it's posed like a question. Are those suggestions part of psychology saturd or Psycho Cybernetics, as they call it? We don't even filter out and say, okay, that's a stupid question. I'm not even supposed to be thinking about it. But it plants a seed in my mind, forcing me to think that there is something I need to think about. Right? So I'll tell you a live case. I watched this film, I think around the time it came out. And 10 days ago, my wife and I watched it together. And she's seen it. I've seen it. Two days ago, it so happened that in the afternoon, apparently, so kids are in school is over for kids. And she's finding ways to keep them entertained, obviously get them to watch Bollywood films that are g rated. And she thinks of Kuch Kuch Hota Hai. So that's not g rated. Star g rated but she's like, fairly harmless for them to watch because they're like eight or nine, closer to eight or nine my kids. Okay. And so, before I went out for my daily swim, as something that struck my mind, and I said, we were discussing a few film house banners. So I told my wife, hey, do you know Dharma creations, which is Karan Johar's banner, the opening tune for Dharma creations is actually the to Trump apps and how much of a hit or a career defining movie that must have been for Karan Johar for him to take the tour and plug it into his own production house. So I said that, and I left. By the time I came back, because I, I stayed out late and met some friends, my kids that finished watching Kuch Kuch Hota Hai. And I told my wife Oh, it's awesome. I actually told her told you about current Johar and that, and how he had taken the tune. And she had completely forgotten about that. And she said, No, no, no, the only reason I actually played that movie for them was because in the afternoon, I was thinking about playing that movie for them. So that funnel concepts of where you are exposing them to that same stimuli in four or five forms, that when you actually make that leap, or decision as a user or a customer, you don't remember all of them, but they have all registered somewhere. So much so that you actually feel that it is your decision that you actually took to us or actually clicked or whatever take that action that you take.

Kinner Sachdev  1:03:08

There is a there is a seven hour rule in marketing what they say. So they say if I had your target audience, keep you in their mind for seven hours, it's not important that they've consumed seven hours of content from you, if they've kept in, you know, you in their mind for seven hours, to whatever blogs videos or whatever you've done, they will inevitably buy from you, you know, doesn't matter your product might be a bit inferior. But if they've had that long, you've helped them make the decision.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:03:41

Yeah, priming, priming the priming the users to hear and see what you want them to see. It sounds unethical, but it's, it is no hard it is you're just trying to get your message across and then helping them understand.

Kinner Sachdev  1:03:53

So there is so there's a great masterclass on you know, on masterclass.com you got to watch. That is one by Chris Voss where he talks about negotiation, and there is another one on sales. And he talks about that if you don't learn this, you can't convince even your own daughter or son to do something that you want them to do. You're always selling, you know, and when you're selling, you're running finance. And, you know, you might not want to recognize it or identify or agree to it, but you are interesting,

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:04:27

Interesting. Awesome. So how did how did the CO founding team come together?

Kinner Sachdev  1:04:34

So Rakhi and me we, I mean, we have married, you know, so that's, we we met at the university, we started our first company and then decided to get married. But beyond that, you know, we basically we all accidentally hired Jerome like it for the consulting role. George came on board at the time, and, you know, appreciate who's who leads business development again, another day. Serbian, you know, joined us in May of a new was hired through a reference. So you know that one of my friends kind of gave. So which slowly built a team during the consulting setup except a few other people. The poor roles were built, you know, all, like staggered timeline, in the consulting time and post the product was called full time.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:05:26

Awesome. And now that I think you have more than enough validation for your what you build, in effect. I see this as some sort of big enabler, isn't it? This is not just about knowledge communities, I think, when you start seeing, the way I see it is now 17,000. Courses are creators. And I'm sure right now you have so much content that you can start seeing at meta level some of the things that can come out of here. So has that automation side of you kicked in and said, Is there a meta course that I can start creating out of this where I can make some giant gigantic leaps happen?

Kinner Sachdev  1:06:11

Absolutely, there is so much of meta learning that we identify, let's say there is a canary Academy doing a few lakhs, you know, and reaching out to 1000 people, we clearly see that we can apply that knowledge to help other sellers get better and not start from zero, but start from three. And at the same time, there are so many learnings that we are able to see at at a broad upper level where we see that, okay, knowledge of funnels automations. And when your business starts growing, they're going to be tons about the customer service, you know, offers content production, there is no end to learning. And I think the most interesting part of this journey is learn it ourselves. You know, we learn it at all times, and then we share it back. So the the experimentation, the reiteration and then putting that knowledge back in the hands of all content creators is what's the most exciting part of business.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:07:07

So where, what's the long shot with the Knorish?

Kinner Sachdev  1:07:13

Okay, so, I mean, what's the mission? Is that what you're asking? Or what's the long term goal? This?

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:07:18

 If this were to wildly succeed, what it what would it look like?

Kinner Sachdev  1:07:23

Okay, well, that's an interesting question. I mean, I would say that, you know, we want to be the gold standard, not just in India, but globally, the masters of the game for funnels, you know, specially in the domain of online content. That's, that's who we want to be. And we would say that, you know, your, if, as soon as your eyes are open to better sales, and you want to improve on getting, you know, more clients, we would be the de facto choice. And, you know, my goal personally, is to help at least a million knowledge entrepreneurs, you know, because even if I empower a million, you know, this, this will lead to, if each one of them is teaching 100, you know, which is a small number, some of these people are teaching 10,020 1000 students also. So, you look at the impact 100 million people would have been impacted by them.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:08:21

 It's amazing, you say that, we had Prateek Singh of learn app some time ago, on our platform, and he talked about how learn app, because it's for investing was evolving into a platform that created ability versus knowledge. And when we see the so called the Nordic countries, or the Viking nations, as they're called Finland, Denmark, Sweden. So those, those places, they've enabled vocational courses long ago. So do you see that leap happening sometime?

Kinner Sachdev  1:09:03

Well, I mean, I would say that we, we are not, you know, stuck on all the domains or, or fields so much as genetically helping creators, you know, what my goal is that I, I see funnels running, you know, so strongly to make any business successful in the training content business that, I mean, I would want to, I would want to say that that's what I'm empowering, you know, interests.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:09:31

Interesting. Interesting. We should have some, I think on the episode page, we'll have you share some of those sources. I know three or four very well known ones that talk about funnels, the most popular one being Russell Brunson. And there is a slightly lesser known figure called Chet Holmes.

Kinner Sachdev  1:09:49

 I love Chet Holmes. Yeah, yeah.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:09:52

 Who's Who Who, who's a master in of his domain, obviously. So, let's So you mentioned reading you read Quite a bit what's on your reading list right now? And what's the most interesting book you've read off date?

Kinner Sachdev  1:10:06

So the recent most interesting one that I read was becoming supernatural by Dr. Joe dispenza. This is about the placebo, placebo effects and how, you know, the, the modern science is deciphering the power of meditation and the power of mind. You know, that's, that's, I think, in the past few years, I haven't read a book quite as good as this one. At the moment, I mean, to all them at any given point in time, there are multiple books on the shelf, otherwise, it gets boring. So at the moment, I'm reading, rereading, to be honest, is sell like crazy by salary. So be great book on funnels, and, you know, on on business, at the same time, culture code is another that's, that's that I'm going to, and then I love Napoleon Hill, you know, some of the open source books now by Napoleon Hill. So Laws of Success is like a, it's like a book, like a big book by him. And I think I want my fourth reread of that.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:11:08

So interesting. What would your advice to early stage founders be? Or even the ones that are running right now to sense?

Kinner Sachdev  1:11:19

So yeah, I think learning of I have the big difference that I see between people who are able to make it and who struggle or, or, you know, fail to come out of struggle or are not improving are the ones who don't learn at the right pace. And I think the base for your learning should be so much so that you, you know, you're you're spending at least an hour, two hour a day, even on your busiest days of dedicated to things that you should learn about. And the biggest issue here, usually, and the traps here is you don't know what you don't. So the problem is, how do you find out what you don't know. So you have to constantly explore and look at models of success, you know, people who have made it. So kudos to you, I think this is a great show that you're not you're planning at Maharajas of Scale. Krishna was this, this opens some of the models and points us in the direction of what should we learn next.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:12:14

So I promise, just two more quick questions, decisions. decisions that you sort of regretted making and decisions that you thought you got, right? Do you look at decisions that way? If so, what were they?

Kinner Sachdev  1:12:33

 I never look at things that I mean, so I don't regret things, actually. I mean, that's I feel the past is always perfect. You know, even the mistakes you made, are the ones that let you heal up. So you know, I there's nothing that I would add there. So there's no decision that I regret. Because you can't change the past. So to I don't exert an iota of energy to look at what went wrong. So decisions I made, right, yes, sometimes I'm able to look back at things and say that, okay, this learning didn't pan out. So you know, and there are multiple scenarios like that every week, you know. So it's like the experiment went, well, this was the right direction to start the experiment off. And when you see that it didn't work, you pull back and start learning it again, from some other source or run another experiment. So yeah, right. That's how.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:13:22

 And lastly, do you ever worry or obsess that all that you build? might someday and ever does it ever scare you? Do you get nightmares about it?

Kinner Sachdev  1:13:35

 No, no, not at all. I think the kingdom that we need to take control of his mind. And I think meditation plays a super important role there. I think it should be as important as food and exercise. So I think I might try. I think I do fail on days. But I think more more than I feel I succeed at keeping a leash on the mind running amok. And I think I'd like to control what it thinks and what it sees. So like to visualize things that would go right and keep it at time.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:14:05

Awesome. So Keener, you are an entrepreneurs, entrepreneur, enabling people to launch their dreams, so many tools at their disposal. And what you're doing is not just throw a toolbox at them, but you're also telling them hey, this is a template to how you actually take this toolbox and succeed, which you're doing with funnels. For people that are looking at it. I think they get that this has been a fabulous episode. Thanks for sharing your time. I know that you're going to scale, greater peaks and Maharajas of Scale. We'll come back and then talk to you to see what that vantage point looks like. Fabulous. It was great to have you on the show.

Kinner Sachdev  1:14:42

Thank you so much Tesla, you're doing an awesome job and keep doing it. And thank you so much for having me on the show.

Krishna Jonnakadla  1:14:49

Thank you.

Kinner Sachdev  1:14:50

Thanks, bye.

Tania Jadhav  1:14:54

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